A Trailblazer In The Field Of Entrepreneur Mental Health On The Human Experience Of Building A Business with Kristin Darga

This week’s guest is a trailblazer in the field of entrepreneur mental health. She started working to shift the conversation on this important topic nearly a decade ago, when no one else was talking about, and despite receiving some pushback around it which she shares about in the interview.

Kristin Darga, is the CEO and founder of Black Label Coaching and Impact Founder. She’s a keynote speaker, award-winning author, and health, performance, global incident response, crisis, executive and recovery coach. She has worked with over 500 entrepreneurs, executives, and individuals desiring personal growth to unravel their blocks and create successes. As a six-time founder, she also understands firsthand entrepreneurship's highly satisfying yet distressing road.

Kristin is revered as an expert in mental health and entrepreneurship. She published Impact Founder Book of photos and short written Stories in 2017. She also co-authored a scoping review with the University of Alberta, "Depression among entrepreneurs: a scoping review".

After a decade studying, coaching and intimately interviewing hundreds of founders, she is positioned as an leading expert in founder depression, wellness and burnout.

It’s a huge honor to have Kristin on the show with us this week to share her experience as a trailblazer in this field. We talk not only about what she’s observed in her work with entrepreneurs, but also difficult moments she’s faced firsthand as a business owner including long covid, burnout, panic attacks, as well as what’s helped her to take care of herself and recover from these challenging times.

I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did!

Find Kristin online:

Website: https://www.impactfounder.com/ and https://www.blacklabelcoaching.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/impactfounder/ and https://www.instagram.com/kristindarga/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristindarga/ and https://www.linkedin.com/company/impact-founder/about/

Connect with your host, Dr. Melissa Parks, elsewhere:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissacparks/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melissaparksphd

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melissaparksphd/

Website: https://melissaparks.com/

Sign up for Melissa’s weekly email to receive podcast updates, behind the scenes glimpses of her own experience on the entrepreneur rollercoaster, as well as self-care tips for you to try: https://melissaparks.com/podcast/

Schedule a free 30 min. discovery call with Melissa to see if coaching with her would be a good fit: https://melissaparks.com/free-consultation-call/

Transcript

Melissa  

All right. Hi, Kristin, thank you so much for coming on the show today.  

Kristin  

Hi, how are you? 

Melissa  

I'm really good. I'm really good. I'm so excited about that. We're here. And we connected over I think originally on LinkedIn, at the founders mental health pledge is I think that's right. We were both at the event. 

Kristin  

We were Yeah, it's absolutely.

Melissa  

It's just so great. I'm, ever since I launched this podcast, I've been growing my network of people who are passionate about this topic. And so I was really excited to meet you, and even more excited when you were willing to come on the podcast and share your story, because you've been in this area for quite a while now.

Kristin  

Yeah, I have since 2014, but officially 2015 With the launch of my business. 

Melissa  

Okay. Can you tell us a little bit more about kind of what led you to here? Right? Why What got you so passionate about the topic of entrepreneur wellbeing and mental health? 

Kristin  

I mean, it's it, there's a couple of different stories that lead into it. I think, primarily, I have been a business owner on and off since I was 26. And my second business, I was in Denver, I just moved there, it was kind of new to me. And I'd spoken to her friend about what she does to bring in new clients, you know, Where does she go? What does she think is, you know, good idea for me. I was pretty young, I was brand new, kind of green. And she had answered me with something to the lines of, well, I think we should do a cleanse. Like, what the heck are you talking about? Like, I want to business help? I don't want to health help. And you know, as as luck has it, I was like, Sure, fine, I'll do that anyway. And I did. Right. I know, it just seems so absurd. But it really just started drawing the connection for me between my well being and the well being of my business. And so that was in 2013. And so that was the first sort of like mental hit I got around, how I take care of myself indicates how my business runs, and how I function inside the business and everything. If I get new clients, if I had stones, I started connecting it there. And I studied to become a coach to focus on both nutrition and your mind and your body. So that's that was my first, you know, aha moment. And then there was more to come within the next year.

Melissa  

Okay, yeah, yeah. Well, that was quite lucky. It's I think it was fairly early on in your entrepreneurial journey, then that you you got to find that connection. Because I think for a lot of people, it's, it's they find that the hard way, right.

Kristin  

Yeah, yeah. You know, and I think it was pretty hard for me at that time, right. It was new town had to get clients couldn't find clients. And the way I was doing it was going out and trying to meet people and meet clients, and it was just drinking, happy hour. And, you know, I just, it becomes harder when I was not taking care of myself while trying to find clients and spending money and drinking. And so everything, just kind of, I would say it was a hard time for me. But I don't think, you know, it's the kind of burnout time that, you know, quite frankly, does come later in my career. But it's not quite that aha moment

Melissa  

Yeah, yeah. And then what about and I know, you know, from reading your bio, and everything, I know, you've had this amazing project Impact Founder. How does that fit in there too, because it sounds like that was a really like it really brought you into into the expert role.

Kristin  

Right. So about a year after I launched, kind of a health coaching business for founders, I think about a year later, I was in a relationship with someone and his business was going really well. In fact, I wrote about this in my book, and it's at that time where we think from the outside that everything should be going well, it's sometimes it's one of the hardest moments we have, but his business was going well. And he just he was just kind of overcome with the responsibility of providing what he promised and he almost took his life. Um, he did not he's still well today and you know, out there doing his thing, but at that time, it was a pretty, pretty significant moment. Just you know, in the in the irony of I was a health coach, I was working with founders and their businesses, their mindset, their health, all of the above. And here I was with this person who was really struggling. So that was like the first hit I got around this is really important work.

Melissa  

Yeah, yeah. Even on such a deep level.

Kristin  

Oh, absolutely. And then, you know, I went on with my life. I kept doing my coaching and then a year later, there were three deaths of founders under the age of 32, I believe and two died by suicide and one died in their sleep. And, again, it was a year later from You know, that moment with my ex and I just thought, you know, there's something needs to be done about this, you know, this is a really lonely journey we don't. At that point, no one was really talking about the journey of being an entrepreneur or talking about successes, or talking about, you know, all the six other other kinds of unicorn businesses people were building in, but we weren't really talking about day in day out what it was like to be a founder and run your own business even. And that moment. No, when I heard about those three individuals who'd passed the summer of 2015, I think I really made a decision that this was something that I wanted to spend my time energy and resources on, building around, but I didn't quite know what it looks like yet. I just knew I wanted to do it.

Kristin  

Yeah, yeah. So that sounds like that was a really pivotal moment. And and then walk us through what came next.

Kristin  

Yeah, I mean, it was a pivotal, pivotal moment from you know, that. Okay, this is really a thing that's happening. And what came next was, I didn't, you know, I am a coach. And I think coaching is incredibly relevant. But I've always known that I am not just a coach, I don't want to be just a coach. And not to not to diminish coaching, or coaches, or therapists or anyone who works with the mind that way. But I want him to make a bigger splash than that one on one. you know area of, you know, I focus. And so I started this photography exhibit. And it was meant to be just like a one off thing. It wasn't meant to be my business. It was a project at that point. And it really took off. So 2015, September 2015, a month after my kind of aha moment with hearing the news of the founders who'd passed, I decided to build a photography exhibit and launched at Denver Startup Week. That point there are about 10,000 people who attended Denver Startup Week. And the goal was to launch it in partnership with Startup Week, but they did have some issues with sponsors, in the sponsors chose to pull the exhibit because of the topic of, you know, mental health and in entrepreneurship. Oh, wow. Denver Startup Week has been incredibly supportive along the way. But at that moment in time, you know, I had to make a decision and go completely rogue. So there are some really, you know, that at that moment, that's kind of what it looks like. I mean, it's like I had this project, I didn't know what it looks like, I didn't know what it was. But I knew it was important. And I was in a point of this conversation that was so early on that there were only a few people who were vocal about it. 

Melissa  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, just the landscape around talking about mental health back then. It's not even that long ago. But it is it feels like back back in the olden days, right. We, there was so much more stigma and there's still so much stigma.

Kristin  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the odd part for me is this was never really meant to be about mental health, a story of why I started it is, it's really just about, you know, what we've called the human experience of building a business. I mean, it's really just to humanize that there's these people who go out there every single day, and they have a win and they have a loss, and it exists in tandem. It's not an abnormal, it's really quite normal. Having financial issues when you run a business or having relationship issues when you run a business or having a hard time getting funding. This is just the normal process of being a business owner and entrepreneur. And that was what the exhibit was about. So it was these photo, it was photojournalism with these statements on it, they were that were kind of an and statement. So it was I drive my daughter's car to stay afloat and I just closed my last round of funding, you know, sort of like this, I am successful, and I'm dealing with this struggle.

Melissa  

Wow. I love that. Like, that's just yeah, that end statement can be so powerful.

Kristin  

And so Denver Startup Week, you know, did what they needed to do for kind of supporting their endeavor, which is what we all do. So there's nothing wrong there. But where there was a there was a coworking space that was the one of the hosts of many events throughout the week. And they ended up hosting the exhibit. So over 6000 people went past the exhibit that week. And it immediately started to take off and then I had to build a business around that. Right. That's, that's how that happened. A long story, but it's really an interesting one where you just have this idea You go and you do it, which happens so often for especially creative entrepreneurs, you go do it. And then you're like, Oh, crap. This is happening. This is what I, this is what I'm doing. This is my new life, like, whatever that looks like. Yeah. So that's kind of how I got involved in all of this. Yeah.

Melissa  

I love those stories, right? Because also back then, like, you were like, what, where's this taking me? And it's cool now to be, you know, you're almost 10 years later and be able to look back and got quite a story to share.

Kristin  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, of course, like, just like, the story is in my book, and the stories on the exhibit wall and the stories in the podcast at the time, you know, there's that that journey was not easy. And it was really difficult at times to pave the way of having the really important conversation about mental health and entrepreneurship, about having awareness with your investors about, you know, being really open with your family. I mean, people were in still are, but but it's way more normalized now to have a conversation. There is some research that was out already. But for the most part, there wasn't a lot that was available. And

Melissa  

I saw that you wrote a paper, was it right? When about depression amongst entrepreneurs?

Kristin  

I co authored a paper with the University of Alberta on with some of the occupational therapists on, you know, entrepreneurship and mental health and depression.

Melissa  

Okay. Yeah. 

Melissa  

And any they approached me, you know, with that,

Melissa  

 I just didn't say like, any key findings from that, that you about those that topic 

Kristin  

I mean, it was a scoping review is really just gathering all the information that was out there and presenting it right. And so I think you know, the thing, if I want to, if I am really upfront about it, nothing that I we didn't already know. But that being said, having more papers out there, talking about it, and bring it to the forefront of research was really important to all of us involved.

Melissa  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I just am, I've only been in this field for for the past few years. So it's just I find it fascinating to hear about, you know, what was going on, even before that, because I do still see like that there's, like I said, there's still not so much stigma around mental health, a lot of that has changed. But even like, within the startup world, there's just so many people saying, like, I don't, I don't really need therapy, right? Or, yeah, you know, people, I still so many people I talk with, and these are people who tend to be vulnerable and come on the podcast, right. But so many of them still say, like, gosh, okay, I can maybe share this, but only because I'm talking about my past company, or only because I don't need investment now or, you know, it's it's, I think we're, we've still got a ways to go is my impression, I don't know if you feel that same way 

Kristin  

Well, I mean, I think, you know, as humans, we're not designed to lead with vulnerability. So, you know, as, as we are designed, it would be predictable for us to be that way, or to run our businesses that way. And it really takes something it takes being brave, to be really open about where you are, and have people still want to do work with you and trust you. And I think there's a fine line between dumping vulnerability and having, you know, a high level of vulnerability where you can ask for help. Because that dumping site of vulnerability, people really don't want to hear, you know, and I think when we get that some people don't, some people do, and it's okay. But I think when you really look at how to integrate vulnerability and openness into the workplace, you have to have an advanced way of being vulnerable for people to hear you.

Melissa  

Tell us more about that. What does that mean for you being, an advanced way of being vulnerable?

Kristin  

I mean, I think, you know, it's like this, if I came out here, Melissa, and I'm like, Oh, I've had a terrible day and the weather's terrible. And I just think, you know, I'm in a really big funk. I mean, at some point, people aren't gonna want to listen to that. Yeah. Yeah. My therapist might or my best friend or family might, oh, they are the people I could say that to but I could say unless I look, spent like a rough six to eight months and quite frankly, three years where I had long COVID And I'm coming out of it and my business went upside down. And I have a new business that's in tandem with Impact Founder that I'm building. But yeah, rebuilding is really tough. There's a level of, it's like a high level of vulnerability where you really get that there's been stuff I've been through, but I'm not using your shoulder.

Melissa  

I hear what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Is that something that you coach your clients on?

Kristin  

Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure I do. I specifically, say like I say, I'm usually it's more, you know, case by case with what they need. I don't say I don't actually go through vulnerability as a topic. It is, apparently, what we, you know, work on, of course. But it's, it's an interesting space, because if you need help, you need help. And you need to have the audience who will support you. Yeah, whether that's a therapist, a coach, a family member, who's really supportive, a friend, a partner. And if it's not a therapist, or coach, those people, it's not their full time job to listen. You know, it's, it's your family or your partner, it really can wear on the people in our lives. And so the dedicated support that you can find is probably the most important place to have that vulnerability. And always be heard at whatever level you need to open up at. All right, if I need to dump it all out on someone, I have a therapist and a coach for that. Yeah, I have family members who will always be there and are supportive, but then I also have friends who get it, and the vulnerability levels will shift. And if I'm in a business meeting, I'm very honest. I'm like, Look, I could use one or two more clients at this rate. Yeah. You know, who do you know, I have no problem asking that because I instead of being reactive to where I am in my life, I'm looking at what I need as proactive. Right? I could be reactive and asked for sympathy or could be proactive and say, This is what I'm looking for.

Melissa  

Yeah, that's it is an important distinction. Okay, I want to go back. I have so many questions right now. But I also want to go back to what we were talking about, about just like the landscape changing, and in the startup world, and people being willing to talk about mental health. You'd also mentioned to me, like, you saw things shift with the pandemic. Can you speak more to that?

Kristin  

Yeah, a couple things. One is within four days, my business went inside out, I lost advertisers, I lost clients every day, it was just and I think there's so many stories like this out there right now. Just the pandemic really just slipped it on his head. And so personally, I think I was tapped out. And this is part of the burnout. I was I had long COVID. And I recognized that I didn't have much to give back to the community at that point. But I also saw a big shift. And I saw a big shift because people were you know, I would say sequestered. But not able to really do much. There was a lot of focus on mental health in general. In, in general in the world. Yeah. I think a lot of this shift around business ownership also is there.

Melissa  

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm just thinking I saw that as well. Definitely the mental health piece. I definitely noticed that but yeah, the shift with business ownership to

Kristin  

say, well, this is the right. Yeah. And people would say, Well, this is the right time for you to do this. And I was like it it is a great time to do it. And I don't have the energy to give anymore. Yeah, right. So at that point I'd given a lot you know, I I think I fought a lot of the early kind of naysayers and negativity around being cognizant of, you know, your mental well being and entrepreneurship. And it was a great time to do it. And a lot of people started to pick up the pace on that and we completed the paper that years that was really great. The republished it that year, but I would say a lot of the landscape around mental health in general started to shift during the pandemic.

Melissa  

Yeah. And have you do you feel like that that stayed consistent? Like and what? What have you noticed in your business two with that

Kristin  

Hmm...has it stayed consistent? Um, you know, I just attended a conference in the conscious entrepreneur summit in Boulder, Colorado, and it was a lot for that. Great, yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot around, you know, mental health and awareness. And so, when I see things like this in the community where it wasn't existence was not in existence before at all. I say, yes, it still exists. Yeah, absolutely. But just like anything that exists, it's it ebbs and flows. It's not constant. And I think there's a lot of awareness that still needs to be brought to the surface.

Melissa  

Yeah, yeah. I always worry about this. Like, is it is it We're talking a lot more about mental health. But are we really talking about well being and health and all those things? Or is it kind of just the latest fad? That's always my my concern. But I do think it sounds like there is reason to believe like the tides have shifted quite a lot than from when you first started 

Kristin  

I think so I just I think it's sometimes I wonder if it's like the yellow car theory where I'm just seeing yellow cars everywhere, because I'm no longer doing or if it's just that it is catching on more. And one thing that I want to say is I think we're at a really interesting point in time where there's a lot of compassion fatigue.

Melissa  

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin  

Where's the conversation of mental health is really important and more people are having it. There's a lot of people who are also experiencing compassion fatigue? Well, as I'm sure you understand a lot about that 

Melissa  

Oh, yeah, I've I've experienced that. Definitely. And, yeah, I hadn't really connected some of it happening with the pandemic too. But I can use, Kristen, I'm thinking out loud. You tell me. What have you noticed with the compassion fatigue?

Kristin  

No, that's okay. Thank you. You haven't seen a lot of that happening? You haven't made the connection?

Melissa  

I have. I have absolutely in I mean, I do a lot of coaching myself with therapists who are entrepreneurs. And I am seeing it so much so many people leaving leaving. So I mean, it's like a double edged sword, right. So when people are seeking out therapy, and then the therapists are like, I can't, I can actually handle this full caseload, and I can't handle these problems that they're bringing to me. They can handle it. Right. But it's it is bringing on that compassion, fatigue. And, unfortunately, mental health professionals don't get trained on how to manage compassion, fatigue. I don't think even the the coach training I've done like, I remember getting any help from that it's been more of my own, like, searching for kind of self care practices where I've found some tools.

Kristin  

Right? Absolutely. I was. So it's so interesting that you say that because I actually recently conversation with someone and she's like, let's just pretend you're not the expert on this for a second. And I was like, oh, and then I realized, I'm like, not showing enough compassion for him that he's upset because I probably also have compassion fatigue. And I think that started to build around the time of the pandemic hit things were going really well, my business, I had a couple part time employees, it was a small business, it was a small bill, there was a slow build, but consistent. And then I also had another company Black Label coaching and built that, and all imploded. And then I, I actually ended up going internal inside of a company for a couple of years, which was probably the most healing thing I could have done for myself, but at the same point, exactly where you're saying about, like, going through pandemic and being a coach, or a therapist or the medical profession, it was, I think, one of those times that really, truly tested your capacity that you have to care for others. And the amount of care you need for yourselves in order to continue doing that. Yeah, I think the boundaries that I came up with, for myself, were the most strict boundaries that I've ever had in business, because it's really just, I'm going through it too. I need the care that I because of it, whether it's for like experience in long COVID Or if it was just flat out dealing with people and everything they're going through in life as well as life being just a lot heavier these days.

Melissa  

Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, like the first time in history, right, that we're, you know, working with these clients who have, we have something, we're all going through the same thing, right. I mean, of course, there may be like, you know, individual things in your business and stuff that are going our family life. But it was a very unique experience that none of us were prepared for.

Kristin  

No, not at all. And the thing is, is, you know, it's it out of it, I probably created some of my best habits, right? Because I had the habits before and I was doing them but I was trying to do it all at one point, you know, it's March 2020, run this 17th or something like that is when I got sick with COVID. And so I got the first round and it was pretty, it was energy wise pretty significant. I mean, it probably started doing yoga at about a month in and I feel like I glass in my lungs like it was pretty, pretty tough to kind of go through but I implemented working out everyday 30 minutes, no questions asked.

Melissa  

Okay, like seven days a week?

Kristin  

Seven days a week, just move your body like walk to yoga, I mean, whatever it is, just do it. Yeah. And I implemented that, as well, as you know, obviously, because I was so sick, I wasn't drinking as much. So drinking wasn't even really on my radar, it didn't sound good. My body, my body didn't want it. Whereas I think a lot of people ended up coping through their mechanisms, you know, was the only thing that I knew how to get myself into a place where I could work I could support my clients I could take care of myself was if my full focus was on my well being.

Melissa  

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's it, it's bringing to mind kind of that idea of the spoons. I don't know if you know that theory, like you have a certain number of spoons. Like, if you wanted to have enough spoons to get to the day, like you had to prioritize your well being.

Kristin  

Absolutely. And I, you know, I got up every day for the greater part of six months with no spoons. Right? Because long hard for COVID, for me was essentially just extreme fatigue, and exhaustion, memory loss, like, you know, a lot of issues with recall. So it's it, you know, was what's gonna build my reserves or what's gonna build my spoons. And that was something that I think is one of the best things that came out of this for me.

Melissa  

Yeah. So I would, I'd love to know, I say, we'd love to know, because I'm sure listeners would love to know, too. What do you do these days? Right? Like, what? What inspiration can we get from you in terms of how you care for yourself?

Kristin  

What did you guys want to know? Because I do sometimes, too. So now, I still have Impact Founder and Impact Founder looks a little different. It looks like I have founder coaching groups. But I also in addition to that, have I have keynotes that I lead, so I lead workshops and keynotes. It's one of the guilty pleasures that I think I found along the way that it didn't really know I loved and I really just, I love hate it. I'm very nervous before I go on stage, but I just love being able to reach again, the larger audience around mental health and entrepreneurship 

Melissa  

Making that splash you mentioned 

Kristin  

Right, exactly, making that splash. In addition, I do have another company that's more focused on I would say, business or corporate. And I say corporate, but I really mean, you know, 500, team members. And under, you know, I still have some founder led companies that I work with, that's my specialty, I have somebody on my team who can work with the non founder, lead CEO, we work with the inside of the company with the senior level and an executive level, I mean, individuals, and also integrate some really fun programs into the full company. So for a lot of different ways to, I guess, create awareness and to open people's minds to different ways of problem solving. That's what we really look at, and leadership and communication and leading with the companies but also their own values and the way they want to actually be remembered as leaders, right? Ah, and then I'm really creating. Right now I'm creating a business that's connecting every stage of the founders experience. They've worked with people at so many different layers on their own journey. And in entrepreneurship, that the business that I'm creating right now, which is probably the first time I talked about it outside of my really small network of friends. Yeah, there's a tiered approach to targeting the founder at every layer. So the impact founder really worked with more of the early stage founders in group coaching, you have the more, you know, we have established business, but we could really use some support, and that's Black Label coaching. And I say corporate, but again, I work with people who are 10 people on our team. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then also, students soon, soon to come will be a mastermind for those who sold their business. So that is TBD on when and the details on that have not been released. But really looking at every stage of being a founder, there is some sort of shift in identity and how to deal with that. And everything around it is what I think I'm focused on these days.

Melissa  

Oh, wow. Okay, well, we're gonna get you back on the show when you launch that, and you're gonna tell us more about it when it's more public? Because I think it is that such a niche group of founders and from the ones that I've spoken with a few clients that I worked with, who sold their companies and then usually in that case, they're like, I want to do it again, but I don't know if I can do it again. And I dealt with burnout and I don't know if that's a piece that that you work on them with. But I just see that there's a need.

Kristin  

Yeah, it's really interesting, right? Like, people don't feel bad for people who are are successful a lot. And it's it's just, it's just like this, this, you know, like they think like, let me play this like little violin for you, I don't feel bad for you. But in reality, you know, anybody with a little compassion can kind of see that there's this, you know, there's this shift that needs to happen to me it's really uncomfortable. And you're very alone in that just like when you were a founder, but it's a really different kind of loan. And, you know, the founder journey is not one with a lot of company.

Melissa  

Yeah, yeah. It's, it is so true. Yes, yeah. I mean, it's like, this is lonely at the top. Right. And it's, it. You I think it's so interesting that you're kind of targeting every stage, because there are so many shifts during that time, too. And I just, I think that makes it lonely to the, the shifts you go through and like they should that you've seen the shifts in identity. 

Kristin  

Yeah,absolutely. And look, realistically, you know, that's just being a human being. You know, but you know, when when you're doing it more where people are watching. Its, throughout life, you're shifting, going through stages of life anyway, right. And there just aren't a lot of people watching it. And waiting for you to lead and anticipating your next move and asking you what you're doing and having you sell them your vision when you may not believe in your vision anymore. I mean, it's just like what you look again, life is complicated, and humans are complicated. But really is something that is a unique, it's a unique experience. For founders. There's so much identity wrapped up in their business, in our businesses.

Melissa  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it just, well, I spoke with somebody else about how when you're a founder, in somebody else on the podcast about this, like how you just one skill so many founders have is just to go and to push and keep going and working towards something. And then I do think it's like, after that, like, from my own personal spirits, it reminds me of like, I did my PhD, and I got to the I defended my dissertation. And then it was like, Oh, my God, what do I do now? Like, on these online forums, they they talk about, like, post dissertation stress disorder, they're like, you just like, suddenly are like, What do I do with my life? Who am I? And I think it's like that with with founders who sell their companies? How do I just put on the brakes and find something else now?

Kristin  

You know, and I'm founder when I built that was so wrapped up in my identity.

Melissa  

Right, I'm sure, yeah, trailblazers,

Kristin  

Tell the story about why is important to you, like, your needs to be personal, right? I mean, that's what people tell you, when you have a company that you're selling, you're selling you and your story, whereas, you know, it's so much of your identity can be put into business that when it's not there, it's like then who am I and so, you know, having gone through that, myself when COVID hit and I had black label coaching, which was identity, but it was very behind the scenes into that that way on purpose. It had enough of being very public, and I wanted to kind of fall back a little and continue my work. And having impact founder also go inside out, it was a real kind of, what do you call that? What do you call that? Like, on the ground for training on separating yourself from your business, whereas I've done that so much before and a lot of little steps. You never really get the full training unless a your business fails miserably, and then you have to re identify yourself, which happens often. Yeah, he, you know, apparently a pandemic hits. See, you choose to sell, where do you walk away because you know that you're not the CEO anymore. Yeah. But those identities shifts are massive for a founder. And I had that really like, hands on sort of training when the pandemic hit and I you know, it's like, I had my first panic attack ever 

Melissa  

Yeah, I've had one of those. That's terrifying, especially when it's the first time

Kristin  

yeah, I'm like sitting on the floor and I'm on the phone and I'm my mom's like, can you please breathe? You know what I mean? And it's that so much of my identity was in the businesses that I built it I didn't know what I was. Yeah, that way 

Melissa  

Yeah. So powerful. I, it's, I'm sure you've like this with your clients do but I'm just hearing you and I'm like, Oh, it's so different from like, the way you're showing up. And I see you now. And so I so appreciate you telling us about this part, because that's a that's what this is all about. Right? This is the work that you do is his talking about this behind the scenes of when things aren't, aren't just smooth and smooth. And you're, I don't know, you don't look as shiny and polished. Right. It's, I'm sure you couldn't talk about it at that point. as easily as you are right now.

Kristin  

I couldn't but you know, I also kind of I couldn't I mean, I was like, trying to see if I could and I really couldn't. And I think I did a some people, right? You know, obviously at that time, it was really lucky. Because I think a lot of people were experiencing a lot of different things. And I was able because it went inside out and the way it did, and the world kind of was going in its own, you know, Inside Out cycle, that it was easy for me to deal with it in, in in my own space and time. Now have really people bugging me. You know, I was able just to live life. And you know, it took about six months, I think for me to start coming around. But again, remember the same time I had long COVID. So it was just a really different experience that

Melissa  

I'd say a perfect storm. Right, like, not perfect at all, like a terrible feeling. But everything just clashed at once.

Kristin  

But it was perfect. Right?

Melissa  

Timing 

Kristin  

I couldn't do anything. couldn't go anywhere. I wasn't healthy enough. The world was kind of weird. I was able to just heal. Yeah. And take care of myself and then focus on with the next one. It was when I had the capacity to focus on it. And it was really lucky in that way. And I don't know if I think of any that as luck. But if you look at like how lucky I was that it happened in just that way. I don't know if you know any other way a lot harder. It's in a different aspect. 

Melissa  

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Right? Yeah, it's a like a silver lining kind of that it happened during that time, even though I don't know what those are chicken and egg thing, right? Because it's that's kind of why it why you experiences it was this global pandemic. 

Kristin  

Sure, exactly. But this is the thing at some point in my life, you know, I also experienced another failure like that. If not, you know, maybe it wasn't going to make it to the pandemic. Or maybe it did, and it didn't make it later. I mean, no matter what, you know, with that was my training on the separation of, you know, my identity and my business. And even people ask me now what I'm doing. It's, it's tough, because I don't want to build something that so attached to my identity again, but I also have to be all in.

Melissa  

Yeah, it's really tricky to do that. I I don't know the secret, secret trick to doing it. So let us know if you found it 

Kristin  

I don't think I'll find it. I think I'll find whatever it is for me, right 

Melissa  

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can imagine there's some like juggling they're finding I don't I don't really like the word balance. But you know, just finding the sweet spot for you. 

Kristin  

Yeah, yeah. And so it's just it was I think that was an interesting key component that when I'm looking at building something for the folks that I know who've sold it, it's a very similar experience, right? It's that separation of identity and what it looks like. Next, and I think, again, it's a very human experience, but we're talking about, you know, how you exist in the world, all of your communities, every aspect of your, you know, from the second you wake up to the second you hit the pillow and maybe even in your dreams.

Melissa  

Yeah, I mean, it's grief that's wrapped up in that right, just the closing of one chapter and opening of another and yeah, maybe it's coming with like, millions or billions of dollars even but that doesn't soften the human emotion that comes with it.

Kristin  

Absolutely, yeah.

Melissa  

Well, we're gonna start wrapping things up, which I hate this part of the interview. But what for founders who are listening and kind of wondering, you know, should I get some help? I don't know. What what words of advice do you have for those listening? Like? How should? How would they know maybe that it's a good idea to get some support from a coach or therapist 

Kristin  

Yeah, I mean, I think it's just, it's always been an automatic for me, mainly because I think if I, if I say I'm a coach, and I don't have a coach or a therapist, and I'm not actually being authentic, and not practicing what I say is effective. So, in my space, it was, well, if I'm, if I'm going to do this, and I need to have this, yeah. But for everyone that's listening, I think it I honestly don't think it's that different than that, right? I mean, you say that you're a leader, then who's supporting you. Right. And again, like I said, In the beginning of this, we have people in our lives who are supportive on some level, but it's not their job. And when you pay someone and instead of a job to actually support you soundboard with you, help you with traumas, I mean, you are going to get the listener that you need, and you're going to get the support that you need. And that's why those professions exist. I mean, I could tell my friend about the thing, and the person will tell me what they think. But when I'm hiring a coach or a therapist, I mean, they're really training me to understand how I think, and how you think is your legacy, your leadership, I mean, every aspect of your business that you're running. And sometimes I think it's not this deep, like I really need help. Sometimes it's like, I'm just not sure I have the right person to talk to you about these things. Sometimes it's as simple as I wish I just had someone to run this past. And so those moments when you then if you have those thoughts, or I wish I had someone to run this past on a regular basis, or I could soundboard, this was someone who kind of gets it, that'd be really helpful. Or someone who can really see problem solving from a different perspective. It's not necessarily I need help, always. Because the thing is, is when you have that support from the beginning, and you get to the point where I need help, because it's likely inevitable. Yeah, you then have someone, you don't have to like, go searching and looking and try to find someone when you're at the really hard place in your life to actually take action.

Melissa  

Yeah, so true. Every time I've helped a friend or family member to find a therapist or a coach, like at that point. And I've been there too, right. I'd like to think that now, I do have those people on board sooner. And I Do I Do I have a therapist, and I've worked with coaches too. But I guess my more recent experiences have been helping family or friends find that person. And I'm just reminded of this is awful to do this. When you're at a moment of crisis. It's the last thing you want to do, right? You just want to pick up the phone or send an email and say, Hey, can we have an extra appointment? Not? Let me look and do I want to have insurance or not insurance? And who's in my state? Or do I want to do coaching and what type? And don't do that when you're in a crisis? Yeah, like you're saying, listen, listen to Kristin, let's take her advice. Get someone on board now.

Kristin  

Yeah, or you just have someone who can be like, Hey, I actually have someone who can help you with this further. And it's an easy resource, if nothing else. But that's, that's, that would be my advice on that. And I just, you know, I don't know where I'd be without all the coaches and people that I've worked with over the years and programs I've attended. It just really have shifted my leadership.

Melissa  

What if we could go back in time I asked all my guests this, if we go back in time to when you were starting your entrepreneurial journey, any words of wisdom you'd want to give yourself?

Kristin  

Yeah, I think the thing that's come up a lot lately is that I, there's inevitably, these moments where we're like, I don't know if I can make it I'm really scared about this. I'm not sure about that. Or I don't believe in myself or this is going to happen or whatever that is. And I would go back and I would tell myself that the it's not about how hard I work. It's about how I build relationships and how committed I am to doing what I say I will that inevitably things as time goes on in life, people remember who you are and what stand you took for them. And they become your referral partners and clients. It never was about how hard I worked. It was always about who I was for people that made a difference. And those people even when I took a three year break, never forgot that

Melissa  

it's really the relationships, right? It doesn't have to be even your expertise, right? It's just how you make people feel.

Kristin  

Yeah, my business has never been built sitting at my desk, ever. Even when I sit there most of the time, my business and my future businesses and my future businesses from there have always been built on. You know, how I show up for others, the relationships that I have with them, the work that I do with them, and they then become my community. Like when I just relaunched my business I wasn't concerned about where I would find clients. I just know that if I continue to engage with the people that I support, and who support me that my company is built.

Melissa  

Yeah, I love that. It takes work, but it doesn't take 

Kristin  

It doesn't take burnout

Melissa  

Oh, yes, it takes work. It doesn't take burnout. I think that that's so important. Gosh, we could do a whole episode about the app for now. But again, we're gonna have to wrap up for today. So let us know if people are listening and they want to learn more about you get in touch, where can they find you?

Kristin  

Yeah, my I've two websites. Impactfounder.com and blacklabelcoaching.com. And those are great resource, you know, resources to peek at. You can always follow me on Instagram, or find me on LinkedIn, depending upon what preference you have just really open about who I am in my life. So I don't hide things. By me. Either way, you'll find the same person.

Melissa  

Awesome. Well, I will make sure to include all that stuff in the show notes. And thank you, Kristin, thank you so much for coming on here today and just sharing your, your expertise. But more than that, even just your own story as a founder and and as a person who's had lots of interactions with founders at different stages. I know it's gonna be really valuable for listeners 

Kristin  

Thank you so much for having me.